Monday, November 03, 2008

Damned if You Do, Damned if You Don't

I'm not a Republican. I am also not a Democrat. I hope to never align myself completely with either group. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can one group of people be right all the time? Can there really be just one kind of President or leader that can rule America successfully? I think not. And it seems history has proven that there are good leaders and poor leaders on both sides of the Republican and Democratic spectrum.

But the thing that is making me crazy with frustration, is that here in Utah, some members of the same church I belong to, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, seem to claim Republicanism as our "religion". And the worst part about that is people who choose to vote Democratic, are made to feel as if they are not living in accordance with the gospel as we know it. Did we not just sit in sacrament together while the bishop read from the pulpit a statement from our dear prophet and his counselors...and I quote:

Latter-day Saints as citizens are to seek out and then uphold leaders who will act with integrity and are wise, good, and honest. Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties.

Therefore, in this election year, we urge you to register to vote, to study the issues and candidates carefully and prayerfully, and then to vote for and actively support those you believe will most nearly carry out your ideas of good government.

The Church affirms its neutrality regarding political parties, platforms, and candidates. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Therefore, vote for and actively support those you believe will most nearly carry out your ideas of good government, and let others do the same--without judging them (or predicting their downfall to the telestial kingdom).

And, if you must know, I'm voting Obama. But you probably already knew that because of that "damning" up above.

And with that, you should read this.


Lindsey said...

Speaking of "damning"...I just can't wait until the whole "damn" thing is over.

ali said...

i don't know jayner. from the sound of things, I pretty much think you're headed straight for hell.

Arin Rohrbach said...

I think most LDS people tend to vote republican because a good part of the democratic party supports abortion and gay rights, which of course goes against our religion. Of course that doesn't mean every democrate running feels that way, but the party itself is very outspoken on those issues. I think it's important to follow the prophets counsel then, and vote for the person, not the party. I have to admit that most of the time the democrats running are too liberal for me, but I have voted for democrats before, because they were amazing, good, moral people, and didn't necessarily buy into the "democrate" party.

Let's face it, neither canidate is going to be the next prophet, so you just have to vote for the lesser evil.

And I agree you are totally going to hell. I'll see you there :)

jed said...

i did not think that a vote for obama would be the thing that finally got you into hell with me, but this is great news. it's going to be a blast.

Anonymous said...

Arin, you say "abortion and gay rights, which... goes against our religion." I don't think this is accurate. The church does not say abortion is always wrong--I know this from experience. And do you think the LDS church want to take rights away from homosexuals? Doesn't the church support the rights of all people? I think there's danger in painting the church's position broadly--we need to be very careful as we interpret the church's counsel. Hugh B. Brown, Wayne Owens, James Faust and many others have felt comfortable as both Mormons and democrats.

emze said...

Long live democracy.

I'm voting for Obama also, but I have been so absolutely angelic and charitable in this lifetime that I am guaranteed a seat in heaven. I'll put in a good word for you when I get there..... although you also make Hazel's poor innocent cat stay outside in the rain. I think your a shoe-in for hell.

ali said...

Why does anonymous always stay in hiding?

Now, I am not a pot stirrer. BUT...I really think the church has been perfectly clear on their position regarding gay marriage. And if marriage is considered a "homosexual right", then YES...I do believe the church does not support it.

Go here and see what you think...

Just be glad you live in Utah. It's pretty NUTS here in California, to say the LEAST!

Anonymous said...

Ali, it's clear the church is against marriage defined as anything besides a man and woman (though if you consider second sealings of widows/widowers, those marriages between more than one man and woman might be sanctioned), but I think the church would say it's a matter of definition of marriage rather than taking away a right of a person. Does the church want to take away the rights of homosexuals to congregate, speak, practice religion, etc.? As I said, hyperinterpreting the church's position is dangerous.

ali said...

agreed. thanks for the clarification.

Summer said...

Well said.

Anonymous said...

stop being such a terrorist supporter jayne and vote for the 'right' party. *wink wink nudge nudge know what i mean?

eRiCa said...

Summed up how I feel. Even out here in Iowa I am not a Mormon in good standing apparently since I claim no party. I vote for who I feel will be the best candidate...end of story.

I voted Obama.

Best Dad in the World said...

Janye, the real question is does Steve Clark know he has an Obama supporter on the front of his campaign pamplet?

Anonymous said...


The Despot said...

i think there are more pressing issues in this election-- more so than most elections in the past-- than whether or not you can produce a soundbite of a candidate supporting abortion or gay marriage. i think issues like economic reform, the war in iraq, and the resolution of our country's relations with the rest of the world should carry more weight in the hearts and minds of the voters. both candidates have faults that make them less than perfect men on less than perfect platforms. it's time (past time for many of us) to get beyond the single issues and see which man would make the best decisions in the oval office. i know we can't ignore moral decay in washington, but it seems there is a time and a season for all things, and this season is for repairing this nation.

i voted for a change.

jayniemoon said...

Wow and Wow. I post lovely pictures of my trees, children and torn down ceiling and get but a few (precious) comments, but bring out the politics (or twighlight hating)...and I'm raking them in.

First of all, Anon, are you the same person or three different ones?

Let me just say, I agree: the LDS church is clear about defining marriage between one man and one woman. They are also clear on loving everyone, therefore, we do not support gay marriage, but love and support homosexuals because they are children of God.
As for abortion,

Are you able to follow this link? There you have the church position on the issue.

I certainly do not believe that a vote for Obama is a vote for either gay marriage or abortion--as, if you know me at all, you know I whole-heartedly sustain LDS church leaders and policies.

Anonymous said...

ALL CAPS anon: if there's one thing i've learned about elections, it's that we often don't hear the whole truth. and so, while i don't want to make this a debate about abortion (since i'm by no means an advocate for abortion) i do think it's important to be careful not to feed into half-truths. it's the half-truths that make it SO hard to know how to vote... and make it so hard to work together from both sides of the aisle (which, as we've seen in recent weeks, is very important). so... here's the deal, as i understand it, with voting against senate bills (which is where your comment about obama's stand on partial birth abortion is coming from)...

sometimes, these bills contain provisions or they lack provisions that those voting in the senate might disagree with. they find themselves unwilling to back the bill completely, because it opens or closes a door that they just can't support. so, saying that obama supports partial-birth abortion because he voted against SB 230, is overlooking the fact that he simply couldn't support a bill that closed a door for women who's health/life might be at risk because of their pregnancy. again... i'm not an advocate of abortion... that's totally not my point. i just think as we consider the reasons why we may or may not be voting for a particular candidate, we need to be willing to look at the stories we hear with an open mind. we need to be willing to acknowledge that the media, our parents, our friends, blogs, emails, etc aren't always objective when it comes to sharing stories about politicians.

thanks for your post jayne.

Anonymous said...

Born-Alive Infant Protection Act---
Don't you know about Obamas link to this?
Didn't he say he would not want his daughters to be PUNISHED with a baby. Didn't he speak with a huge Planned Parenthood curtain behind him?
doesn't GOD say a baby is a blessing.
What do we learn about towards murder and children (LDS)?
Aren't you a Mom?

janaya said...

whoops... sorry jayne, i didn't mean to post as anonymous just then (the anonymous thanking you for your post, that is). talk about making it more confusing. :) i just took a peak at your blog this morning and had to comment. thanks for casting the vote i'm not able to. i'm a canadian... not a felon, just to be clear! :)

hope you guys are doing well!

Anonymous said...

My heart crys for those babies...I have testimonies from nurses first hand. There is no justification for not PROTECTING babies not yet born.

jayniemoon said...

Good question! We even did cut Jed's beard to make him seem a little more conservative and a little less "Osama-like" for the pamphlet, and yet we went to the polls voting like Democrats!

Arin, please don't tell the ward I'm going to hell now...that could be very embarrassing! :)

Anonymous said...

I hope I'm not sorry for chiming in because I have been around for a while and I know that usually, it doesn't make much of a difference. I'll keep thinking what I think and others will keep thinking what they think.

But that sort of brings me to my point. Isn't it great living in America? Where we can all think what we want to think and vote how we want to vote and make choices in our personal lives that work the best for us? Isn't it great that we have those rights and freedoms? Freedom of religion? Freedom from religion? Freedom of speech? Freedom to make our own personal choices about our reproduction?

As I was waiting in line to vote this morning, my teenage daughter and I were texting. She actually wore a shirt to school today supporting one of the candidates for president. Brave girl!

She texted me and said that some people were giving her high fives, etc. But others were telling her she looked ugly and that the person she was showing support for would ruin the country. What happened to treating someone with basic human decency? Now these are teenagers so I'll cut them a little slack.

I recently read The Crucible, a play by Arthur Miller. He wrote it about the Salem witch trials but he wrote it during the time of McCarthyism when people were being put on trial and forced to name names of communists if they wanted their freedom. One of the major themes of the play is the danger of intolerance and the idea that if you use passion to sacrifice humanity, you are no different than any other zealot whose hold on truth depends on a belief that truth must be singular. The play is important because even though the events it describes took place almost 500 years go, the ideas are relevant to today.

Now, back to my daughter. Here is this bright, beautiful girl who is feeling excited and uplifted by her guy. It doesn't matter who it is. For her own reasons, she believes in him and supports him. And someone is mean enough and small enough to tell her that she looks ugly and that her guy will ruin the country. Again, where is the humanity in these comments? What good ever comes from intolerance and hate?

I'm standing in line, waiting to vote, feeling like this is the greatest country because I can show up every four years in November to vote for my guy (or girl) and I'm communicating that with her through texts. What a wonderful place to live. She agreed with me.

I guess my point is, we all have the right in America to vote the way we want to vote. Most people take this responsibility very seriously. They think long and hard about it and have some sort of conviction about why it is right for them. Aren't we lucky?

Where it gets ugly, is when people are intolerant or judgmental or mean spirited. Vote for your guy or girl, put up a sign for your guy or girl. Isn't that the message you are trying to convey Jayne? Isn't that the message you heard on Sunday?

Teach your children, hey, this is important and here's what I think and why and when you are older, you should become informed and take the opportunity to support your guy or girl and to be involved and to vote. But do so with dignity and with honor and with respect for those who don't agree with you. Have discussions with people about the issues and then maybe agree to disagree but do it respectfully and without resorting to name calling or mean spiritedness.

That is what is great about America. We all have the right to make up our minds and make the choices we feel are right at the polls and in our personal lives. I felt honored to be able to participate in the process this morning.

Hope this isn't too controversial Jayne:). Love, your Aunt Shana

jed said...

bless you, shana. and cheers to paige.

Michael Scott said...

Very well put Shana. What sage, meaningful words you write.

KB said...

Beautifully put Jayne!

jayniemoon said...

Right on the money Shan. That's how I feel. We really are blessed to live in America and have the freedom to choose the way we do. We wouldn't want everyone to feel/act/choose the exact way we do would we?

I believe we can stand up for our beliefs and still show tolerance, love, respect...regardless of difference of opinion. This to me is the Christian way.

Anonymous said...

I love this post! Though I think Obama is a socialist I still think everyone should enjoy the right to vote for someone they think would best represent the country as a whole.

I just hope when people vote, they vote on the issues and not because of some slogan the candidate put out there.

This election sucked because we had to choose between and old geezer with an unqualified VP and an unqualified socialist. Slim pickings this time around.

Good luck on going to hell.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Are you happy now! Look what you have done!!!

jayniemoon said...

Okay, enough with all these anonymous comments, I'm so confused! There is a button down below that says: name/URL. If you click on that button, you can type your name. (This is also for my mom and aunts who always comment anonymously and sign it at the end). You don't have to be nameless! Join the fun!

Paige said...

I'm very happy with what we've done :)

bethanne said...


Okay so the election is long over and I have not visited here in such a long time. What a shame I was missing out on all this controversy! I love a good political discussion. Amen to all that you have said!

I think that one of the most important parts of a democracy is a good healthy dialogue.

I grew up in that "liberal" 4th ward over by you.:) I have to admit that all growing up I had no idea that I was surrounded by a bunch of socialists, or liberals or democrats or apostates or whatever many on the far right might consider them. I just always thought I was fortunate to be taught by good, thinking, Christian people. And here's the clincher, they weren't incredible people because of their political affiliation, they were amazing because their faith. I love the people who helped make me who I am today, my parents included.

As an adult and a parent I am so turned off by the labels "democrat" and "Republican". Who wants to be that narrowly defined. I don't want my children to grow up being little liberals or little conservatives. My hope for them is that they grow being kind, thoughtful, compassionate, grateful, hardworking, forgiving, charitable people.

I have to admit that I wept on election day and the days following. What an incredible part of history to witness and be a part of. I don't think our new president will be perfect and I can garauntee I won't agree with him on everything. But I do feel hopeful.

My husband and I voted differently this election and I wouldn't be honest if I said we didn't have some serious discussions that weren't always fun. We may not agree on how to solve all of the worlds ills and hardship but we agree on the basics. In the end we are both hopeful for the future of this beautiful country. Okay, I have said way more than my share! Thanks Jayne! (I am sure you read Jordan's blog on this, if you didn't you should, it's lovely!)